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Member Since: 18-Jan-07
Location: US
Posts: 1472
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A Thinker
Two greatest hinderances to public eduction. It isn't the teachers.
I decided to repost this in education section because I feel very strongly about it.


Two of the largest problems with public education are parents and administrators. Not all parents and not all administrators, but enough that it hamstrings the teachers and sets a terrible precedent for the kids.

My girlfriend taught high school mathematics for over 10 years. She worked in a school district with a large percentage of ethnic minorities, but ironically was one of the few ethnic minority staff members. She dealt with administration that often times did nothing more than create make-work to justify the administration positions.

Starting class sizes were always greater than 30 in her math basics, algebra and algebra II classes. Administrators would then transfer into her algebra and algebra II classes an additional 3 to 4 students who had been kicked out of the metro district. The majority of these transfers were placed into classes beyond their abilities by the administrators.

She would then have to spend a couple of weeks getting these kids placed correctly because of resistance from parents and scheduling conflicts. Meanwhile the class progress is slowed because she still has to try to teach to these children who are in way over their heads.

On top of working over 60 hours a week (because the job doesn't stop when the final bell rings, folks), she would send home progress reports for kids not performing well. She would send written reports home. She would e-mail the parents directly. She would telephone the home, and even the work and cell phones at the parents' request.

The message was very simple, "Johnny/Sally is not performing well. If they do not improve, they will fail this class. Here are my recommendations for how they can improve. Here are the times after class I am available to help them. Here is a list of other resources that are available to the student."

If my girlfriend was lucky, a parent would respond once in the first semester and once in the second semester to her repeated attempts to address the student's impending failure to pass.

So the end of the year comes around. Little Johnny/Sally has already failed the first semester, and they've pretty much blown the second semester. Final grades are posted and they didn't pass math.

The parents' response? Shock and awe. Their solution? Denial and accusation. They would call my girlfriend and claim they had no idea of the situation. Why hadn't she contacted them? Johnny/Sally needs a passing grade to get into college!!!

When she would pull out documentation of the letters, e-mails, and a list of times she called the parents would then often times claim racial discrimination. Which is fucking hilarious because my girlfriend is of mixed ethnicity and at the time she was married to an African-American man...

The parents would then try to negotiate with her, forgetting that the teacher doesn't just award the grade. Johnny/Sally earned this grade. When that failed they would then challenge the grade with the administration. With greater and greater frequency the administration would override the grade earned by the student.

Meanwhile, what does the student learn? Working hard isn't the way to achieve. Whining, bitching, complaining, and cajoling is the way to succeed.

Further, our society then blames teachers for failing to teach... How about the parents who are failing to teach their children to work hard? How about the administrators who tie up the system with ridiculous bureaucracy?


~ A.I.


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Member Since: 24-Oct-07
Location: CO
Posts: 14992
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Super Contributor
My own mother is a teacher and goes through exactly what you describe quite frequently. Luckily for her she teaches Kindergarten lol.

But I totally agree with you.

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Member Since: 20-Mar-05
Location: US
Posts: 2
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Just getting started
A.I. you hit the nail on the head. Teaching academics is the job of the instructor...but, teaching accountability is the task of the parents and administrators.

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PoeticLicense
A.I.
While I agree that the "greatest hinderances to public education" is NOT the educators themselves....you have to admit (well you don't have to) that there are many teachers who are clueless, sadistic, bastards.

My father taught school for over 26 years and he saw a lot of changes. He taught when there was corporal punishment and he knew of teachers (and complained to the administration about them) that took it too far. He did use a "hack" board, but it was the LAST resort and he rarely if ever had to use it, and never twice. And he did not give repeated hacks in a row, just one good swat and that was it. I don't believe in corporal punishment because the administration can no longer control the children, nor their parents, and definitely not the teachers that get off on bullying the children.

I have had some great teachers in my time, and some that should have been sent to the firing squad. I had drunk teachers, a teacher who turned out to be a child molester (sp?), a teacher who screamed constantly if anyone got anything lower than a B in ANY subject he taught and said that everyone was idiots and I knew of many instructors that felt they could physically abuse students openly in class, and sadly they got away with it. Sometimes, though rarely, it IS the instructors. I do think however that parents don't get involved enough, and some don't have the education themselves to help their children, and some frankly don't give a damn. I feel for your girlfriend....it's a tough job, but to those that stick it out, they find it rewarding when even one child "gets it" you know?

All hail to the GOOD teachers in life......they have a lot to deal with.....and they still go to work and truly love it.....because they definitely aren't in it for the $$$$.

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vb_again
Is this thread still to young for me to blame the unions yet???
smile


gov't employees beget more gov't employees...who then beget more gov't employees...

It's the perfect "circle of life"...


10 years later...you have tenure...and you're able to beget as many ppl as you can without any regards to any consequences... thumbup












It's kinda/sorta like....fucking without a condom... cool

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PoeticLicense
Tenure makes it harder to fire them...but not impossible. The teacher's union really came through for my mother when dad passed away. If she hadn't had his survivors benefits....she would have had to mortgage the house after owning it outright with dad for 20 years. When he had his first open heart surgery (his arteries never grew beyond child size) in the 70's, every teacher in the district he worked in donated blood (if they were the right type) to be put on hold for his surgery.

Pay teachers well, give them smaller class sizes, proper equipment to work with, and weed out the assholes that go into it because they just picked something on a list of things to be when they grow up........and things will get better across the nation. Without teachers......who would teach future educators? Future lawyers? Future doctors? Where would we be without teachers and public education? Let's stop lowering the standards and quit teaching to the state required tests.....and the children in this country will be much better off.

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vb_again
Justifying ones own existence mayhaps?
Without teachers......who would teach future educators?


confused





TFF LOL

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PoeticLicense
Sadly that's all you got out of my entire post. You just seem so angry anymore VB and I'm sorry about that. I blame the parents mostly. Too many parents don't want to help their children with their schoolwork, or even take an interest, or can't help with the schoolwork because they either aren't well educated due to many reasons, or not educated at all, or are too involved in their own lives to bother. Some teachers are shit.....but most are great and deserve to be stood up for.

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gillybean
The scarey part of the degradation of our educational system is that those that manage to graduate will be in charge of the country eventually...which is the main reason I am changing careers so that I don't have to retire...

I returned to college in my 50's, and it amazed me how many of the fresh-out-of-high-school students should never have been admitted to any institution of higher learning. I saw research papers where the entire work was written in "Txt spk", and one that had a COMIC BOOK listed as a work cited! They came across as utter morons when they opened their mouths in class, between chewing gum and every other phrase being "y'know" or "ummmmm".

The trouble is that many of these kids are passed through the system to enhance graduation rates, are taught only to pass the standardized tests, or are such great athletes that the diploma has nothing to do with any education at all. If they get jobs after school, they honestly believe that they are worth $60k a year to start?

I've been working for 40 years and I'm not worth $60k a year (yet)....
angry

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PoeticLicense
gillybean said: The scarey part of the degradation of our educational system is that those that manage to graduate will be in charge of the country eventually...which is the main reason I am changing careers so that I don't have to retire...

I returned to college in my 50's, and it amazed me how many of the fresh-out-of-high-school students should never have been admitted to any institution of higher learning. I saw research papers where the entire work was written in "Txt spk", and one that had a COMIC BOOK listed as a work cited! They came across as utter morons when they opened their mouths in class, between chewing gum and every other phrase being "y'know" or "ummmmm".

The trouble is that many of these kids are passed through the system to enhance graduation rates, are taught only to pass the standardized tests, or are such great athletes that the diploma has nothing to do with any education at all. If they get jobs after school, they honestly believe that they are worth $60k a year to start?

I've been working for 40 years and I'm not worth $60k a year (yet)....
angry


The teaching to the tests thing goes on a lot in this state. And I don't call that teaching. Yes you have to make the numbers for the standardized test.......but some kids don't know who Mark Twain is........don't know that yellow and blue make green.....just some simple stuff. I took some classes last year and was surprised by the same thing you found. And the local community college has made it so easy to pass the entrance exam......it's a cake walk compared to what it was when I originally went 20 years ago (or more really). My father was an educator for 26 years and he would not like what is going on. I do think there are poor teachers out there, but I know several that go above and beyond just teaching to the test, and find creative ways to make learning fun for even their high school aged students. It's sad, but they are too few and far between.

I've been working since I was 20 and I'm not ever going to be worth 60k a year I don't think. And I've managed an office.......but that's locally. Locally it's very hard to get decent wages unless you have a Bachelors degree and they don't care what it's in, or if you can do the job you are applying for, as long as you have the Bachelors degree. Which to me is predjudicial. The experience should count for a lot. 2c

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Member Since: 8-Aug-11
Location: GB
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Well here in the UK I think it's the severe lack of parental input with some children !

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PoeticLicense
alley52cat said:
Well here in the UK I think it's the severe lack of parental input with some children !

I lived very briefly in the UK and it seemed that you folks have a much better educational system there. But yes without parental input, it doesn't do much good. The more we let go, the more crap we allow in school, and the more we let parents off the hook, (and horrible teachers) the more the students will be "punished" by ending up in college doing the things gillybean mentioned. Pretty soon we'll be a world of text speakers who believe grammar is their mothers mother.

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Member Since: 13-Oct-21
Location: US
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Just getting started
shydawg said: A.I. you hit the nail on the head. Teaching academics is the job of the instructor...but, teaching accountability is the task of the parents and administrators.

jerk
: mellow 2c scared sleep sneaky :

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Member Since: 9-Feb-19
Location: US
Posts: 5
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Just getting started
You are right, lousy administrators and clueless parents
Those who blame unions and teachers definitely have no idea what they are talking about. When I was in middle school, 2 teachers were fired for being useless and 3 subs were put on the never call again list for the same reason. Administrators need to do their jobs to get rid of ineffective / useless teachers. Yet sadly, once you become an administrator, no matter how crappy you are, the district will protect them. A student told one of my teachers about another teacher who years earlier was molesting her. My teacher had to report it. The administrator ordered him to not report it, threatened him with firing if he did. He ignored, notified the police and the district big wigs. He was transferred to another school. The administrators, they got promotions.
Now let's not even talk about parents. That is another discussion. What is sad, you need a license to own a dog or drive, but anyone can be a parent. curse curse curse curse vomit

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