milfchaser said: Zelensky probably hasn't been included because the US is propping his regime up, not just with weaponry, but also funding his government. His country, at present, still depends on external help to stay alive -- both US and NATO/EU help.
He'll obviously have to be included once the framework is worked out for a peace deal. You can't have a peace deal without the Ukraine government on board, and that means Zelensky.
The EU countries are angry at not being invited to the peace talks, which begs the question: where the hell have they been the past three years? The Ukraine war is on their continent. It's a European war. The fighting is taking place with 500 miles of some key European capitals. Are there no EU statesmen who can deal with Putin and Zelensky and broker a deal? Aside from a couple tries by Macron in 2022, where have the EU leaders been? Why did everything have to wait until Trump got into office?
And -- for that matter -- where the fuck was the Biden Administration when it came to the idea of peace talks? With them it was all war, war, war. This was even when Ukraine was clearly losing on the ground (after they kicked the Russians out of central Ukraine). Kamala once said 'we're going to back Ukraine's efforts to take back all of their territory'. Oh, really? In what alternate universe is that going to happen, without NATO / US boots on the ground?
RE: EU Army: Bad idea. I've said why in other posts, no need to repeat here. You really want an independent, EU Army? Welcome to WW3 within 20 years. The continent's long history speaks for itself.
RE: Freedom of Speech: Vance raised some valid points about EU speech suppression tactics. But we have it going on here, too, in the US, as Vance admitted.
Both sides in the US have wanted to ban freedom of expression. In 2020 and 2021 if I'd have said on social media that the virus may have been due to a lab leak (something even the Biden Administration, and Biden's FBI recently reported may be true), I would have had such posts blocked and may have been put in the social media version of jail. I have online friends in the EU who had this happen, too. And, of course, here in the US we've got the right wing wackos who want to ban pr0n (a goal that was stated in Project 2025), and books like the cover of the one Artistic posted.
We may see the recension of Miller v. California in our lifetime. That will be a sad day for America if and when that happens.
Miller ruling needs updating. It won't be rescinded but in light of the new Information Ecosystem that we are in no question clarification needed now.
